Muscatine

Good Morning EVERYBODY! Jeez, been a while----- and after all that time away and traveling back home yet a second time since Christmas already, I find not much has evolved for the better in our world. Not collectively mind you, but a few skirmishes afoot seem to be the "same ole same ole."Thanks for this insight into the realities of this issue, sounds pretty clear.

Chosen,----I am not picking on you nor would I. So, initially like many others here, I was happy to have read the article you provided, though extremely saddened by it's turn. Not alot to glean in facts, but such a sad and unnecessary tragedy. Did the officer(s) identify themselves(Ruby Ridge)? Does Virginia law allow a person to shoot first and ask questions later, either side of the door? And, did the shooter fire through the door? Being not far from that region and a southern Gal, I found the whole event so pointless and would like to believe the officer was not in the wrong. I think after all the facts are out, we would likely be talking about a total moron with a gun regardless of the law or the tactics use by that particular department. My Mr. spoke to a local county officer about this, as far as a similar case here within Iowa Law. Not actually a case but a "for instance" Plus as he said and we agree, it's not the gun, but the owner. It's not the car, but the drunken fool behind the wheel, or in one case not the nail gun but..............And, in that same regard here in Iowa? This officer states that "All One Needs To Commit A Justifiable Deadly act of Self Defense, Is the REASONABLE Fear for the Life Of Family Or One's Self. Be the weapon of offense, a knife, gun, club, chair or a pointed finger inside a jacket pocket.  Officer: " The element of equal force does not apply as far as the officer taking your statement is concerned, because your fear for the loss of your life is more important, and most crooks don't let you know how they intend to kill you or a loved one. Especially if the attacker is clearly within your private domain."  "Now later, should the attacker, his or her family lay claim to a suit, the Judge and Civil court might disagree." " And finally, if the potential assailant is fleeing, don't shoot no matter what !"

But all in all, it's become a cliche' though true, "A good Carpenter doesn't blame his tools." and "guns don't kill people, people do. Accidents, self defense, robbery, burglary, crimes of passion, and occasional "Hunter gets shot by Prey" cases, most all involve the gun. Many involve various other forms of weapons as well. But sadly, your comment regarding the gun and it's use just sounded so off point. Reminiscient of a fearful society, one of a free people willing to toss away any right to defend one's self and family with deadly force, through the use of the most effective form of defense we have. One that generally equalizes innocents as prey AND, guaranteed by the constitution. I can see that you are saddened and shocked, as everyone else, and I do understand the quandary, your point is that of many others throughout our nation. Though you are correct, that in this case the gun served no one. It was however, perhaps wrong to inflect that shade of "Gun Grabber" mentality within that terrible act of blatant stupidity and carelessness. That man simply shouldn't have owned a gun and as a result of his actions, the officer will be sorely missed and that idiot will likely never again see a day of freedom.

Again, I intend no disrespect nor wish to pummel anyone, but must disagree with the basic points your post indicated regarding the GUN. That "tool" like any other can be used for good or bad. Just so sad that we have folks in this world that prefer the latter, and the gun gets the blame. The right to express to agree or disagree is cherished and guaranteed again by the constitution and understanding that is most important, while owning and using that gun legally is guaranteed by that same constitution.

God Bless.

Choosen,

Let me tranlate this one for you. After making several great points about guns and the responsibility of owning them, this person basiclly calls you a jerk in the nicest way I have seen in a long time.

Even if I got the translation wrong, you are.

Istreat - Thank you for your in put on the matter. It is indeed a sad story. I, like you, would like to think the officer in the story was in the right. Clearly we do not know by the facts given.

I also can accept the mentality "that guns don't kill, people do" if we can accept the fact that guns don't protect, people do.........

Grand and Glorious not so cold weather we're having and a Good Morning to all!

 I like you're "Iceland" designation. Couldn't be farther from this reality. You know for the first time in over a decade of living this far north, we have now twice, TWICE found that our hot water has become a solid horizontal copper pole beneath our floors. Didn't have these problems down where I spent my youth. But also had fire ants, scorpions, a nasty little Black Widow spider with a temper and one devastating creepy crawly called the RECLUSE. Though every one of these would freeze to extinction this far north, I sure do miss those MUCH warmer winters down there.  These old joints simply detest the thought of transporting my scant self about these rooms. Perhaps if we think warm VERY HARD it will happen sooner?

I just knew I was forgetting an element of that fringe issue of the gun. As you point out, there isn't a life-force within or surrounding our weapons of destruction or defense. You got a point there and agreed, these guns must be led, they must be manipulated, they must be used for the best purpose. I truly feel we need to amend our society as a whole in order that there might come a day where outside hunting a meal,  it would EVER be necessary to reach for that weapon. So though I agree with that- in principle, I have to add some fairness,  currently, in order that such a sociological fantasy might actually be, the tools needed to offer such protection will always need to be of the most effective means. Violent and often times deadly is the gun. I agree also that should there actually be a reasonable alternative to protecting one's family and self, with a guarantee from those advocating a "No Gun society" that ALL our lives will be protected, then by all means, I would be happy to turn them over, or at least not own one. But Ever so sadly, though your point is taken and understood, this is, was, and will most likely always be an issue, that in our world, the right to protect yourself cannot and should not be handed to  a small collective of men and women, that have not a clue when and where to rush to my or your aid, even if a split second ahead of the would be vengeful killer, rapist, or crazed random killer. To rush in like Elliot Ness or the Lone Ranger to save the day.

I get the dream, I just don't see it as a reality. But yes, you are right in that the gun should not simply be our protection. But--until the day comes that our laws will be obeyed, or criminals will cooperate and announce their intentions, and the need to self protect will never be an issue, I'm sorry. I will always look to any means, gun, or poison dart(?) to protect a life, especially those of my loved ones. Heck-fire, I bet at my age and a woman at that, I have a better than 50/50 chance to get a pop-off to drive away that nasty soul, even if I miss and don't hit the dog or our finches, or the house down the road. We called them scatter guns back home, my Mr. calls them the Equalizers. He says "You know that unmistakable CHNUCK-KUCHINK!-sound  loading a round in the barrel makes?" Yup, "That scares the crap right outta them." We are all reasonably intelligent folks, we all know the dangers and the joys of our guns, but more importantly, we know our world, our rights to own and to be safe in our homes, and on our streets. The good Lord destroyed it once due to such evil, and at some point turning the other cheek isn't enough. So to those who don't wish to own or use one, I hope and pray that you never need to. But for those of us who Cherish that right, put faith in that sort of protection and understand that once they are gone(HOPE NEVER) our communities will be an open season for those who would do us harm, without that little voice in the back of their minds CHNUCK-KACHINK!

God Bless